My wife and I have been together for over 2 1/2 years and were just married this past summer. We met in May, 2006. Since March of 2003, I have had 3 tattoos. One is a religious kanji symbol on my left bicep, one is a black panther on my right bicep and one is a flaming sun around my navel. None of them are offensive. When we met, my wife didn’t seem to have any problem with my tattoos. If she did, she never mentioned anything to me. I have never, and do never, go around flaunting them, but if anyone walks up to me in public, whether it be a 4 year old child (I’ve had that one happen), a teenager or a 70 year old senior citizen, and they ask to see them, I’ve never hesitated to show them off.
She is a religious school teacher at a small religious high school (about 50 students). She also comes from a small town about 2 hours south of here where everyone knows everyone and everybody knows everybody’s business, whereas I am a big city guy (born and raised in the second largest city in our state).
I’ve never had to hide my tattoos from anyone or at any place I’ve worked at, but I’ve always had to be EXTREMELY cautious with having them show around my wife’s grandma. My wife has specifically suggested that I not have them visible in any way around her grandma saying “I don’t think it’s a good idea. Grandma might get upset”. Her grandma is very old-fashioned and straight-laced (as are most of my wife’s friends and people that her parents know).
I still remember the day (3 months into our dating period) I was sitting at her parents dining room table and her mom said “Sorry we have to do that, but it’s just that Grandma…”. The first thought in my mind was “Ohhhhhh ho ho! So, you people are ashamed of me or the choices I’ve made! Wow! Niiiice. Real nice.”
My thought is, in those first three months, and specifically that day that I was sitting at that dining room table, they (my wife, her sister and her parents) knew what they were getting with me if my wife proceeded in the dating stage with me.
Ok, so you make the call. Is it understandable to any extent to ask me to comply with my wife’s wishes or does it sound like her and her family are ashamed of me or the fact that I have tattoos?
Wow…that is pretty harsh..it sounds to me like they are all terrified of Grandma…hahahah…I would be flaunting them all over the place if it were me…lol…ok…luckily it isn’t me. That is such a hard situation, really though, she knew you had them when she married you. Did she really just think that you were going to stay covered up forever??? Doesn’t really seem like a realistic expectation to me at all…I would talk to your wife and tell her how you feel, and how unfair it is that her family wants you to hide who you really are, I mean wtf, this isn’t the fifties anymore…and it is a free world…ultimately the decision will be up to you to decide how far you will let them control your life…good luck with it man….let us know how it turns out for you k???
Yes, yes it does like they’re ashamed. But, fuck, it happens man. While in most places, tattoos aren’t something to be commented on, there’s still pockets of country where if you have one, you’re seen as trash.
Example:
When me and my wife were looking to get married, she told me she wanted to get married out at her home church down in Kentucky. Now, I’m an atheist, and she’s not, so while I thought a religious ceremony was kinda silly, it was important to her, so I was game.
What she didn’t tell me that her church was this little clapboard nothing out in the middle of East Buttfuck Kentucky with the nearest neighbor so far off that he’d never hear if some maniac went all Leatherface on my ass. All I could see out those curiously clean windows was trees, deer, and enough pickup trucks to carry the congregation of fifty up the gravel lane.
Now, in order to get the church, we had to convince the preacher, her cousin (who, as a sidebar, married his 1st cousin, who’s also my wife’s cousin, and who she swears fucked his sister) to both marry us and allow us to use “his” church. See, the church and the land are owned by her family, but whoever’s the preacher at the time has total control over the facilities.
And since he hadn’t seen my wife in church since she’d been with me, he requested we sit through a service before he’d discuss it with us. So, with a fixed grin I went.
Now, four years ago, I wasn’t as tattooed or pierced as I am now. Unlike now, if I wore a normal shirt, my ink disappeared, but for some stupid reason I work a sleeveless shirt, displaying my tattoos in all their glory.
Now, this place was a holy roller church like the kind I didn’t believe existed outside of Hollywood’s fevered dreams, the theme park version of crazy Christendom, but holy fucking shit dude. The preacher ran out of the back room, yelling and crying, screaming about how much better Salem Baptist was than those sinful Methodists in town proper, how much more faithful they were to the inerrant Word of God ™. He went on to speak in tongues, explain how stem cell research was like the Tower of Babel, and God would strike America down like he did that ole Tower for man’s pride, how the only Christians in Africa were those missionaries sent from America and how widespread cannibalism is in that “country” (yes, Africa’s a continent, but he called it a country), and how we didn’t evolve from no damn monkeys.
The congregation rocked and rolled in the aisles, knelt in the pews wailing in tongues, one guy wordlessly wandered up and down the aisle, hand raised in the “hallelujah” gesture, and I sat in my pew, eyes wide in terror.
But the high light of the morning was when in the middle of his stream of consciousness rant, the preacher began a half an hour diatribe against those sinful folks with tattoos. How those who’ve marked their bodies with foul inks will never enter the pearly gates of Heaven, how no amount of contrition would be restitution enough.
He was looking me in the eyes when he said it.
After the service, he refused to even be told my name, and said he’d not marry us in his family’s church.
Some people, just fucking hate ink. It’s just something those of us in the club have to deal with. If it was random people on the street, I’d advise you to fucking headbutt them, but since it’s family, you just got to deal man.
Love. Peace. Metallica.
Tat2dBaldDude:
I’d say just cover them up. How often do you see your wife’s grandmother? How hard is it to cover your biceps and your navel? How much longer is she even going to be alive? Personally I don’t think it’s worth offending your wife’s grandmother, or causing a scene, or getting into a fight with your wife about it. Sometimes with old people it’s easier just to satisfy their wishes than to get them to change their views, that’s just how they are.
I don’t think it has anything to do with people being ashamed of you, it’s just that some old people don’t like tattoos. I have a grandma who probably wouldn’t like it if I got a tattoo either… I know I would find it way easier just to keep my shirt on than to worry about whether or not I get to show her my tattoos.
So, I think it would show your wife and her family a lot of respect just to humbly comply with their wishes.
KnightHawk:
Haha, that is crazy. I’m surprised you still married her if that was her home church. The sad thing is that some people think that true Christianity is like that… when in reality that ridiculous, incestuous “preacher” is spewing garbage that has nothing to do with Biblical truth or God’s love… haha, where did he even get the idea that God cares at all about tattoos?
Hi
I fully understand I come from a Jewish (laid back) family and my wife is from israel and her family are really orthodox.
They hate tattoos I mean to the point where I was walking through a neighbourhood in Tel Aviv and some of the bastards starting slinging rocks at me. Needless to say I scored one back and ended up in the cells. 😀
The way I view it is this;
Love demands certain sacrifices – If wearing a long sleeve shirt once in a while and keeping a fixed smile on your face is all that your wife asks of you for a quiet life then it is a small thing.
All my family and her family know I have tattoos – they hate the ink but love me for the person I am. So I keep it out of their face and they don’t berate me on it (everybody is happy).
The key is keeping a balance of demands there may come a time in your life where you have to ask your wife to reign in a certain view of feeling with great uncle burt (example).
The term ashamed is too strong – it is a culture prejudice and yes we all have them. It is the irrational dislike of something we don’t really understand or has been drilled into since been little.
Your Grandmother in law will not be around forever but your wife will be with you for many years to come.
Relax smile a lot eat the rock hard cookies and listen to the ‘when i was young’ tales with a fixed glaze and all will be sweet. 😀
Take Care
Matthew
DonnaMH: I love your posts so far! I think you give great advice and I’m going to love reading your posts! LOL I hate to say it, but I couldn’t agree with you more about this situation. While “ashamed” may have been a bit overboard, there is no doubt in my mind that they know darn well in their minds that they don’t exactly like the fact that I have tattoos, but seem to be too gutless to be brutally honest and admit it to both me and themselves. All I ask of them is this: If you like my tattoos, great! If you don’t like them, that’s fine too….that’s your opinion. But don’t let me see you struggle to wear a sh**-kissing grin on your face, pretending that you like them and don’t have a problem in the world with them, when you know in your minds that you would love to have the right to grab the nearest laser and wipe them right off the face of my body in seconds if you could. THAT is hypocrisy…and I CAN’T STAND hypocrites or people who don’t know how to be honest with themselves.
Knighthawk: Wow, what a story! LOL. What an amazing story. See, there were parts of the story that I could relate my wife’s hometown to, but hers doesn’t sound NEARLY as bad as your wife’s in Kentucky. But wow, I have to give you all the credit in the world for not making a HUGE scene in that church the second that pastor even remotely began to try to sell the congregation on the idea that he knew sh*t about tattoos. That’s another pet peeve of mine too…I HATE when someone talks about something like they’re an expert on the subject, yet they don’t know a thing about that subject. For example, in this scenario, I personally don’t think “Grandma” (my wife’s grandma) has any room to judge me or talk about the wrong-ness of tattoos when she’s never gotten one in her life!
My view on it (and I would like your follow-up thoughts on this): Don’t EVER let anyone try to manipulate you into changing a portion or especially all of who you are. The main saying that I keep hearing in my head throughout this ordeal is a quote that one of my buddies, who was one of the first people I told this situation to, said. He said “I HATE that they said “Hide your tats, because Grandma might get upset.”…F**k Grandma! Who cares..Let her get upset! Life is full of upsets!”. Now, I will admit that he was a little over-the-top with harshness, but I can’t lie…I couldn’t agree with his point more. I had these tats before I came along. There is NO reason I should have to hide them now. Like I said, just to re-emphasize, don’t ever let anyone tell you who you can and cannot be!
How does putting on a shirt change who you are? Is your identity so wrapped up in some ink on your skin that if you cover it, you will lose your identity? Isn’t that kind of sad – shouldn’t your identity come from who you are on the inside?
I think you’re being really selfish to insist your way on this. It just seems so weak, “ohh the world is out to get me, I’m so persecuted for my tattoos, my inlaws don’t APPROVE of me what am I going to do?” Did you really think you could get tattoos without some people feeling uneasy about it, and do you really expect everyone else to change just to make you comfortable? I think a real man will make sacrifices to keep a good relationship with the inlaws, just for the sake of his wife and her sanity, not throw a pissy fit because he feels like some people don’t accept him 100%.
When I was dating my wife (girlfriend at the time), about 4 months into it her parents sat us down and told us that they don’t like how our relationship is going, that they think i’m a bad influence on her, that we’re too young, etc. and I think part of that was because I had long hair and earrings… but I had done nothing remotely hurtful to their daughter. Of course I was mad, and my relationship with them hasn’t always been awesome, but I tried to help them overcome their fears of me as much as possible rather than give up and hate them forever. And there have been more incidents along the way, but overall we all have a peaceful relationship now, and it’s not something we have to worry about. Not to say that I acted perfectly, because some of it was surely my fault.
Anyway, I know I’m new here and I’m being kind of harsh, so I apologize for that, but if we’re all about freedom of expression I might as well start now.
Hi as a followup.
I understand what you mean about not letting others manipulate you to change. In fact I lived my life that way upto 22 (I am now 32).
I did not give a damn about what anybody thought, I did as I pleased and never thought I would look back. The fact is that by 22 all my family are dead – I never had a chance to resolve some of the issues that arose because I refused to accommodate their demands/wishes/expectations. I admit I was a selfish bastard.
I have to live with that and I just take the responsibility of my actions and hope that when we do all meet again I will get a second chance to resolve them.
So they don’t like your ink – how much does it cost you to wear a shirt and keep the peace – it costs you nothing, but gains you the respect of your wife.
It is likely your wife is torn because she loves you and does not want to offend you by saying I hate your ink. Having somebody walk upto your face and say that can cut deep – even more so when it is somebody you are close to, I know how it feels and you need rhino skin for that shit.
She loves her grandma as well and just wants to keep it smooth.
Life is brutal, short and full of upsets – why add to the pile?
I know you will likely disagree with my view (as will many) but I am just showing the flip side of the ‘fuck the world’ coin.
Take Care
Matthew
I gotta say…cover ’em around grandma out of respect for your wife and her feelings. Obviously “grandma” is the matriarch of this family and alot of their feelings probably stem from that. You’re probably not hanging out at grandma’s everyday for 12 hours…so it’s not much of a sacrifice. And let’s face it, anyone who is married knows that there are times each of you are going to have to make sacrifices for the other person. Plus, I’m going to assume that you’re not a big fan of tube tops…so it probably won’t require a complete overhaul of your wardrobe. :p
As far as your wife and her “straight-laced” friends…PHUCK THEM. If your wife truly loves you (and I’m NOT saying that she doesn’t) then she needs to respect and love you for WHO you are. To me tattoos are self-expression…and each of us has our own reasons for each tattoo we have. Your tattoos are a part of you…physically, emotionally, and spiritualy. Period. She promised to love ALL of you, not just the parts she decides she wants to.
And I agree with everyone who has said not to let go of who you are. That’s not right. Ever, period. My fiancee has never even dated a girl with tattoos…and really isn’t behind women getting tattoos. And he’s entitaled to his opinion as much as I’m entitled to cover my entire body with ink…but he truly loves me. He wants me to be who I am because that is the person he fell in love with. He didn’t fall in love with me with the intention of turning me into something else. If he wanted something else then he could (and would need to) find it elsewhere. I am who I am…ink, piercings and all. That’s who I am. Love it or leave it.
On the same token, “grandma” and the rest of the world are entitled to their opinions…regardless if they know what they are talking about or not. I’ve never been in a gang, but I think it’s stupid and I don’t see the point of it. However, that’s just my opinion…and you know what they say about opinions, they’re like assholes, everyone’s got one.
My own grandmother FLIPPED OUT when I got my first tattoo. She went on and on and on for like half an hour. Then she took a breath and said, “If that’s you honey…if that’s what you like then I love it…because I love you.” What a poignant and profound comment. That is (to me) the true essence of love.
I would suggest talking to your wife about what your feeling with this whole situtation. Don’t yell…even if she does. Don’t make it a fight…even if she tries to. Don’t take any bait that’s thrown out there to make it anything more than two people talking to each other. None of us are mind readers and only you can speak the words that are on your lips. If you feel she should come to your defence…tell her. If you feel attacked…tell her. Whatever you feel is okay and she needs (and deserves) to know all of it. She is supposed to be your partner, your backup…but she can’t help you if she doesn’t know what you need.
Just a final thought…I’ve had employers ask me to keep my tattoos covered…not because of anything personal, but more because there is still…and will probably always be, a stigma attached to those of us that have ink. It doesn’t make it right or fair, but it is just simply a fact of life. People are judgemental…often without cause and often in the wrong with their judgement. This is just something that we have to deal with and accept. It doesn’t mean we agree with any judgement passed on us, it only means that we acknowledge everyone’s right to form their own opinions and thoughts. There is a lot of ignorance in this world. I’ve been called “trashy” and “slut” and all sorts of other names simply because I have tattoos. Those people have no clue as to what kind of person I am. They don’t know that I am a college-educated professional. They don’t know that I volunteer at countless organizations (including nursing homes). I take their comments with a grain of salt…simply because I consider the source.
Life isn’t pretty. Life isn’t fair. Life doesn’t give us our own way all the time. Life gives us challenges to help us grow into the best person we can be. Everything is a lesson…if you choose to learn from it.
:D:cool:
Haha, that is crazy. I’m surprised you still married her if that was her home church. The sad thing is that some people think that true Christianity is like that… when in reality that ridiculous, incestuous “preacher” is spewing garbage that has nothing to do with Biblical truth or God’s love… haha, where did he even get the idea that God cares at all about tattoos?
I married her because I love my wife with all my heart my man, warts and all. She holds some religious beliefs I find to be ignorant and/or false, such as young earth creationism, limiting abortion if not out right banning it, and teaching God created the universe in 7 days to children in science class rather than in philosophy or religion. But so what? I’m a hard person to live with and love, so it’s not like there’s things about me she hasn’t had to learn to accept.
As for making a public scene, I really do have a talent for making them, but one of the reasons my wife hadn’t been to her church in a while had to do with the fact that she’d been attending a far more mild fundamentalist church closer to our home in Cincinnati. It’s like the difference between Billy Graham and freaking Jerry Falwell–same basic idea, but far less evil in presentation.
Problem is that, to this day, my wife doesn’t have a driver’s license. So when she went to her new church, *I* had to go…and I kind of got us kicked out. You see, during the Bible Study after the service, I kind of torn into the preacher about how he felt roughly 85% of the earth’s population was going to hell. And it turned out I could quote scripture better than him, having studied it obsessively in my own fundie youth. Oh, and the “Fuck Homophobia” t-shirt probably didn’t help.
So, when it came time for the home church, I had decided that no matter how bad it went, I would do nothing to embarrass her like that again if I could help it.
Because I love her…
…and because I’m terrified of her. Seriously, she’d kick my ass.
The point of my story was, I’ll again state, is that not everyone likes tattoos. Hell, many people down right hate them. Though most of us won’t admit it (not that I would in real life), part of the point of tattooing is that it isn’t totally socially acceptable. That social unacceptability and, yes, the pain, help set us apart, help define who we are, as part of the in group, as part of the club.
And because we set ourselves apart, as part of this “in” group, some of those not in it will at times take it as a rejection of their group, their values, their ways of life.
When those people are strangers, you’re within your rights to headbutt them.
When they’re you family, you have to grow the fuck up and deal.
Otherwise, you’re just going to cause your wife some severe annoyance man, and yes, shame.
Love. Peace. Metallica.
Hi KH
You know you touched on something that I would rarely say to a non-tattooed person.
Your’e right it does set us apart – one of my reasons is part of me will never want to truly conform and I guess my ink is an outward expression of that.
Perhaps it is defiance mixed with a love of art. Lets face it when ppl are showing tats to one another we are sharing an unspoken experience for the most part.
Either-way it makes for interesting times and people 🙂
Take Care
Matthew
Ever have that experience where there was someone who, while not a bad person, was distasteful, or just plain annoyed the hell out of you, only to find out weeks, or months later that they have tattoos? Doesn’t that make them less annoying? Don’t you immediately compare ink, and share that unspoken experience you mention?
It’s happened to me more times than I can count. Hell, when I built that giant robot it was only the knowledge that they had awesome tattoos and therefore couldn’t be all bad that kept me from killing two members of Team Timmy.
That’s what I mean when I say “in” group. Someone with a tattoo is immediately seen as a tentative ally, because we identify with them, know that whatever else they have, that they’ve shared an experience with us.
It’s really just a more mild version of how fundamentalist religions identify with each other by protesting abortion, stem cell research, and voting conservative Republican despite the fact that the Republican party does little to fulfill its promises to them. It’s more about identity than it is about the actual beliefs, it’s about seperateing the “us” from the “them”.
Love. Peace. Metallica.
It’s happened to me more times than I can count. Hell, when I built that giant robot it was only the knowledge that they had awesome tattoos and therefore couldn’t be all bad that kept me from killing two members of Team Timmy.
That’s what I mean when I say “in” group. Someone with a tattoo is immediately seen as a tentative ally, because we identify with them, know that whatever else they have, that they’ve shared an experience with us.
It’s really just a more mild version of how fundamentalist religions identify with each other by protesting abortion, stem cell research, and voting conservative Republican despite the fact that the Republican party does little to fulfill its promises to them. It’s more about identity than it is about the actual beliefs, it’s about seperateing the “us” from the “them”.
Love. Peace. Metallica.
Okay…I have to play devil’s advocate on this one KH. Wasn’t the first post to this thread a complaint about being/feeling as an “them” versus “me” sorta situation. Am I the only one who caught the feeling of alienation from Tat2DBaldDude? So isn’t the statement of seperating “us” from the “them” on the same level?
Sure, there’s the whole shared experience thingy…but hell, I’ve had the flu…which is a worldwide shared experience…doesn’t make me more likely to accept a person or click with them…not just because they have had the flu as well. A shared experience does not a friendship make. Most of the time it doesn’t even make people acquaintences…
I’m sure that if we all just took a nice deep breath and calmed down about the whoel “i’m being persecuted because I’ve got a tattoo” idea and just saw things for what they are we’d all feel a whole lot better and get along a little more. People are ALWAYS going to have opinions on EVERYTHING. That’s all it is. Plus, we’re dealing with a MAJOR generation gap here between “Grandma” and the bald dude. Her ideas about life and the world are just different…and that’s okay.
Truly folks…it’s really OKAY for all of us to be different…that’s what makes life interesting.
And in answer to your questions KH…yes I have met some SUPER annoying people who have tattoos…but finding out doesn’t make them less annoying. It might make one more tollerant to the annoyance…but nothing fixes annoying, or stupid. (And don’t say I’m living proof of that.)
😉
Sure, there’s the whole shared experience thingy…but hell, I’ve had the flu…which is a worldwide shared experience…doesn’t make me more likely to accept a person or click with them…not just because they have had the flu as well. A shared experience does not a friendship make. Most of the time it doesn’t even make people acquaintences…
I’m sure that if we all just took a nice deep breath and calmed down about the whoel “i’m being persecuted because I’ve got a tattoo” idea and just saw things for what they are we’d all feel a whole lot better and get along a little more. People are ALWAYS going to have opinions on EVERYTHING. That’s all it is. Plus, we’re dealing with a MAJOR generation gap here between “Grandma” and the bald dude. Her ideas about life and the world are just different…and that’s okay.
Truly folks…it’s really OKAY for all of us to be different…that’s what makes life interesting.
And in answer to your questions KH…yes I have met some SUPER annoying people who have tattoos…but finding out doesn’t make them less annoying. It might make one more tollerant to the annoyance…but nothing fixes annoying, or stupid. (And don’t say I’m living proof of that.)
😉
Honestly, I’m not even talking about Grandma or the dude’s “problem” anymore. The conversation has moved on from him imho. Frankly, I’m speaking in sweeping generalities atm, just musing because, frankly, I’m half drunk and think I understand the mysteries of the universe atm.
Love. Peace. Metallica.
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