Hi all!
Greetings from a river town in the Midwest, US. I am half conservative financial analyst and half German rock music loving crazy person. I’ve got a couple simple tattoos that I love and am stiving toward getting something new that is more complicated/colorful/customized. Got the concept all drawn out, but having trouble getting a tattoo artist around here to um, quite honestly, return my phone calls…I searched this forum so I can post my dilemma & see if it’s ‘just me’, but before I did that, I saw that it was in my best interest to introduce myself! 😮 Seriously, I’ve seen people on other forums get flamed for endless “I’m new here” posts, so bear with me…I’ll make an effort to play by the rules!
In the meantime, rock on, y’all!!
The Cracked Quacker
Hi and welcome.
Have you tried visiting a studio that you like? Many artists do struggle to find time to return calls because they seem to endlessly work on clients.
I always find it best to go in person and then you grab some design and discussion time.
Looking forward to sharing your ink and ideas.
Take Care
Matthew
Hi Matthew, thanks for the response!
That’s part of the story – I HAVE actually visited TWO places in person – it is a LONG story, but I’ll try to sum it up:
1. I started out with an idea in my head that was like an addiction. I couldn’t find any stock tattoo pics that really captured the concept, so I decided to consult an artist about how to go about a custom tattoo.
2. So, since I love tattoos, but I am certainly not an industry expert, I consulted the last person to do work for me. I was happy with him and the shop in the past. I discussed my idea with him, we found some pictures to start from, put down a deposit, and he asked me to give him a week to put a prelim sketch together. He said we would call me when it was ready. No prob.
3. Week goes by and I hear nothing. I figure he’s busy, so I give it another week.
4. The next week, I call him, and yes, he has the prelim sketch ready. Great! I go in to see it, and it wasn’t quite what I was going for, but it was a decent start, so we discussed changes, he was very enthusiastic, and asked me to give him another week to do the updates. No prob.
5. The next week I call to check in, and he is not available. I leave a message for him to call me back. No call. I call again later on, leave another message, no call back. I give him another week for him to return my call, and finally just get that vibe that says I don’t really want to do business with someone like that.
6. So, feeling wierd about the whole thing, I consult one of my acquaintances that has many complex tattoos. She agreed I should try a different artist and referred me to the artist that did her work. So I made a consult appt with this new artist.
7. Met with new artist, and she seemed much more professional. I explained to her my last experience. She was very sympathetic and made the comment that I would have a wonderful experience at her shop. We discussed my idea, and she asked for a week to do a prelim sketch. She said she would call me when it was ready. No prob.
8. Week goes by and I hear nothing. Sound familiar? So I call her, and yep, she has the prelim sketch ready. Fine, I go in to look at it. Deja vu. So it needs some changes, pretty much the same ones I had to go thru with the last guy. No prob, I guess, she needed another week to make the changes.
9. So another week goes by and I hear nothing. ARGH! So, I’m thinking that I was just being too vague, and maybe the pics I supplied were not getting the point across. So I decide, with my child-like drawing skills, I would sketch the damn thing myself. Granted, here is where I am at the most fault, because I should have done this from the beginning…but anyway, my sketch wasn’t too bad, so I made an appt to show this to the artist to help her refine what she had worked on.
10. So I go in again, and she looks at my sketch and contends that there is very little difference between my sketch and her sketch. I really didn’t know what to say, but I politely disagreed, and went over the parts of her sketch that I liked better than mine, and things that I would like changed on her sketch. I don’t think she was offended, but maybe she was? Anyhow, I asked how long it would take for her to make the changes, and she said ‘not long.’ I asked when I should check in, and she said her schedule was changing and that SHE would call ME. At this point I’m hearing “Don’t call us, we’ll call you…”
11. So anyway, I decide I’m being paranoid and give her the benefit of the doubt. Well, ya know what – 2 weeks and no phone call!
12. Also note that price was not an issue. I was up front and willing to pay high prices and tip well for someone who was really interested in helping me out.
So my question is, and I apologize if this thread was not the place to post this, is this standard practice among shops dealing with custom work? Do you have to chase/stalk the artist repeatedly after they’ve accepted the engagement in order to get results? Perhaps my expectations are just out of line. :confused:
The Cracked Quacker
Hello! Welcome to this forum, it’s a little nicer here than other places.
I don’t know you in person and I that makes it hard to figure out exactly what is going on but I will give you some general things that I have learned about doing business with artists.
1) Artists, in general, are shitty business people. Meaning, they are lazy about follow up, will forget to call you back, will miss appointments…. ETC. All the stuff you have learned about customer service goes out the window in most cases.
2) Artists have egos. You have to be fairly delicate but firm when it comes to dealing with their opinions. A lot of artists feel that since THEY are doing the art its THEIR choice what it looks like. It’s your job to get what you want with out insulting them.
3) Artists are allergic to phones. I can’t tell you how many times an artist has said “I will call you” and I never got a call. There are so many ways to communicate these days and you should use them all but the most effective way is in person. “Oh, hi artist person, I was down the street and I wanted to stop by and see where we stand on the sketch you were working on for me. I am very excited to work together!”. Continue to do this until you a response. Sometimes the response will be “I don’t want to do your tattoo” but that’s better than sitting out there in the ether having no idea what’s going on.
4) There are many fishies (artists) in the sea (studio). As much as you might love the artist that you are working with, it’s a possibility that does not go both ways. If you don’t trust your artist to do what YOU want, move on. Research more. Scour the web and visit other shops with your sketch. Talk to many people before you put another deposit down. The point is that you should not be in a hurry to do this and you should have a two way relationship with your artist.
5) You should be a little flexible. It’s not paint by numbers for your artist. They are going to want their own spin on it in their own style. That’s why picking the right artist is so important. If you walk in and ask for a realistic tree and you walk out with a sketch of a Japanese style Koi you are probably with the wrong artist. That said, when someone matches your style, you should be able to trust them to put themselves into the piece without losing your vision.
Anyway, this is all just my opinion and you know that thing about opinions and everyone having them, right? I think what you are going through is part of the process and you should try to embrace it. When you get that shiny new tattoo that fits what you wanted you will sit back and laugh about this!
Thanks Gsouder!
Those are great points, and it’s good know that artists generally have the ‘phone allergy’ and it may not be that I’m coming off as a horrible person and a pest! …Or it might be! 😀
With that in mind, I’ll make the effort to ‘drop by’ the shop in person again next week and check up on the situation. If things go south, I won’t feel too bad about moving on, and I guess I’ll know more the next time I talk to someone (or someones). I certainly don’t mind an artist putting a little ‘artistic impression’ into the work, but it damn well better knock my socks off if they want to drill it into my skin for eternity!
And my little journey has made a good story so far – my ink-free friends think I’m a pariah that has been banned by the tattoo community and they are laughing it up! “Silly accountant – tattoos are for rock stars!” Ha ha!
Thanks again for the advice – I’ll definitely keep at it!!
The Cracked Quacker
Hi
As said above it can be a hassle to get some work done. I must have hit 30 artists about my backpiece before I narrowed it down to 5 possibles because I liked their work.
Of this my orig artist was one and he said he simply could not be bothered.
2 More were as you experienced terrible at keeping appts to discuss etc (and like you i am spending serious money and i work so cannot afford to lose the time).
The final artist i chose Phil has been a saint. He drew it up for me (I did not mind waiting 2 mths as he is always booked) and then when I was ready I had to take a 4 mth rain check on it due to personal circs. I offered to let him keep the deposit £200 and he was like no worries ring me when able.
When I was in the states the LA artist opened up on a sunday (his day off) so he could do my arm tattoo before I flew to Florida.
So yes I have had the negative and positive side of it.
The key part is be fair and firm and state that you are serious about the ink and a deposit often goes a long way in keeping attention 😀
That said only choose the artist if you are comfortable with them.
Take Care
Matthew
I don’t know you in person and I that makes it hard to figure out exactly what is going on but I will give you some general things that I have learned about doing business with artists.
1) Artists, in general, are shitty business people. Meaning, they are lazy about follow up, will forget to call you back, will miss appointments…. ETC. All the stuff you have learned about customer service goes out the window in most cases.
2) Artists have egos. You have to be fairly delicate but firm when it comes to dealing with their opinions. A lot of artists feel that since THEY are doing the art its THEIR choice what it looks like. It’s your job to get what you want with out insulting them.
3) Artists are allergic to phones. I can’t tell you how many times an artist has said “I will call you” and I never got a call. There are so many ways to communicate these days and you should use them all but the most effective way is in person. “Oh, hi artist person, I was down the street and I wanted to stop by and see where we stand on the sketch you were working on for me. I am very excited to work together!”. Continue to do this until you a response. Sometimes the response will be “I don’t want to do your tattoo” but that’s better than sitting out there in the ether having no idea what’s going on.
4) There are many fishies (artists) in the sea (studio). As much as you might love the artist that you are working with, it’s a possibility that does not go both ways. If you don’t trust your artist to do what YOU want, move on. Research more. Scour the web and visit other shops with your sketch. Talk to many people before you put another deposit down. The point is that you should not be in a hurry to do this and you should have a two way relationship with your artist.
5) You should be a little flexible. It’s not paint by numbers for your artist. They are going to want their own spin on it in their own style. That’s why picking the right artist is so important. If you walk in and ask for a realistic tree and you walk out with a sketch of a Japanese style Koi you are probably with the wrong artist. That said, when someone matches your style, you should be able to trust them to put themselves into the piece without losing your vision.
Anyway, this is all just my opinion and you know that thing about opinions and everyone having them, right? I think what you are going through is part of the process and you should try to embrace it. When you get that shiny new tattoo that fits what you wanted you will sit back and laugh about this!
I have to disagree with some of your points here.
1. NOT ALL ARTISTS HAVE EGO’s
2.An artist’s job is to listen to the client and what they want to achieve with their artwork (if it’s possible), and an artist should not put thier own spin on work without consulting the client first.
3. Not all artists are allergic to phones
4. Its more realistic to give the artist a couple of weeks to do design work, i always say 2-3 weeks, i have a book full of design work to do and know i would never come up with it in a week due to demand.
Just to add tattoo artists are not a different breed of people, some have gigantic ego’s ….and some dont.
Tattoo artists can’t cure cancer, havent got a solution for global warming, cant feed all the starving children in the world.Therefore they’re just human beings…..
I’m sure you will find an artist that you are comfortable with, and hopefully you get some really awesome ink.
This is the way i personally like to go about my business as a tattoo artist:D
My 2 peso’s as an ARTIST
Thanks to Sherav for sharing your experience and thanks to Izarrasink for the fresh perspective (I wish I could work with you)!
But what do you mean tattoo artists can’t cure cancer?? Well, sh*t. j/k
Seriously tho, I think the biggest part of my frustration is that went I went in to both artists, I was completely upfront about me being a custom tat newbie, and asked them for help with the process and what to expect. When they gave time references like “a week” and “not long,” given my narrow frame of reference, I was thinking I should get a call within at least two weeks. By all means, if an artist would just come out and tell me “Hey, my next 3 weeks are booked solid, I won’t have time to even start a sketch till after that, but we can talk then” then certainly, my expectations might have been based more in reality.
In fairness, I was also upfront with my most recent artist about my communication neediness (given my first experience), but to no avail. If I have to chase people down, 1) it wastes my time 2) I feel like I’m not being taken seriously, 3) I feel like I’m being aggressive/pushy, and 4) I get stressed out, and that puts everyone off!! 🙁 All I ask is for is a little open/honest communication – some wicked talent – and open/honest communication. Phone, email, smoke signals, I don’t care! If an artist prefers that I stop by in person rather than call, then TELL me!! (…Jeez, it’s Monday & I don’t want to go to work, can’t you tell?) Sorry for the rant.
Hindsight being 20/20 – I should have taken some advice from this forum before venturing out. It probably would have saved me a great deal of frustration! But sometimes (most of the time) I gotta learn the hard way…:o
I appreaciate all the help! I’ll forge ahead. Getting this tat done will be very cathartic for me!
Have a good one!
1. NOT ALL ARTISTS HAVE EGO’s
2.An artist’s job is to listen to the client and what they want to achieve with their artwork (if it’s possible), and an artist should not put thier own spin on work without consulting the client first.
3. Not all artists are allergic to phones
4. Its more realistic to give the artist a couple of weeks to do design work, i always say 2-3 weeks, i have a book full of design work to do and know i would never come up with it in a week due to demand.
Just to add tattoo artists are not a different breed of people, some have gigantic ego’s ….and some dont.
Tattoo artists can’t cure cancer, havent got a solution for global warming, cant feed all the starving children in the world.Therefore they’re just human beings…..
I’m sure you will find an artist that you are comfortable with, and hopefully you get some really awesome ink.
This is the way i personally like to go about my business as a tattoo artist:D
My 2 peso’s as an ARTIST
I thought I was clear when I said “some general things that I have learned about doing business with artists.” but I thought I would reiterate. I’m sure there are some artists out there that don’t have a big ego (everyone has an ego or else they would not exist but that’s a whole other conversation) and there are some that love to talk on the phone. In general, however, what I said is true in my experience as it is in the experience of the person I responded too.
I’m not dumb, I know there are exceptions to every rule, but in the case of artists, these exceptions prove the rule.
Haha you are not the first person to say that to me today. Although I’m having a hard time figuring out what one has to do with the other. I mean, on one hand, I can see this as two different sentences as follows:
“Sorry, I missed the word ‘general’ there'” and “I think you may have your head to far up your arse” (grammar and punctuation corrected, of course)
But now that I have that written out it just doesn’t make sense as two sentences because they are so random next to each other. So then I tried to take out the “…” and look what I cam up with:
“Sorry, I missed the word ‘general’ there I think you may have your head to far up your arse”
But that doesn’t make any more sense than the first way. So I while I thought about this I went out and got some ice cream, because what better is there to do than get ice cream when you have to think with your head shoved up your ass, right? I mean, it makes it smell nice and sweet up there, like a cave made of chocolate and who wouldn’t want to pontificate in a dark cave made of chocolate? I know I would and I do.
It occurred to me that maybe what you meant was this:
“I’m sorry I missed the word ‘General’ in there but I’m a self proclaimed artist and I have too much of an EGO to admit that I was wrong so I’m going to try to insult you by telling you that you have your head shoved up your arse making my apology for missing the word that I clearly missed a backhanded apology and therefore not affecting the ego that I just inferred I did not have.”
It’s amazing what I can come up with from my chocolate covered cave, isn’t it?
Wow, it sounds like you’ve had a pretty bad experience.
My artist and the shop he works at is amazing!! I love going there. Everyone there is so nice and funny. And I do get calls or emails if they need to tell me something. For my first tattoo there, they called and asked if it would be ok if my appointment at 3 could be changed to 4. And then apologized for any trouble it may have caused!
For my next (quite large) tattoo, I wanted a very specific thing. We talked about it VERY much so he could get it as close to what I wanted the first time. We scheduled an appointment, and I went home extrememly excited and quite a bit nervous. On my appt day I went in, he had the drawing all done, and it was amazing….but not quite what I wanted. So we talked about it more and I showed him what I wanted changed. He said he would be able to get it fixed in about an hour or two and that if I wanted to, I could wait and keep my appointment.
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