We’re getting a little off topic as the question is not whether the tattoo is good, but at what stage an artist will be able to work with the arm once removal treatment is underway and roughly what price I’ll have to pay to get it to that stage.

As everyone is questioning why I want it removed though, I’ll address that:

“the people who have made “unflattering comments” are probably not people who like tattoos and will put you down no matter what you had on your arm”
First up it’s curious that people who see photos of it tend to react differently to people who see it up close. Perhaps I’ve flattered it with the light and angles of the photos I’ve taken of it? Of the people who have commented on it, some of them are inked… and some inked alot. It’s not that they say anything overtly negative, usually they’re underwhelmed and force out something polite that’s very short of a ringing endorsement. The usual line is “let’s see it then… Mmm” (nod of the head). Not the sort of language I’ve come to expect from my friends.

Looking back I hold my hands up and think I was too hasty and should have impressed upon the tattooist the quality I was expecting. I’d been planning on getting tattooed for ages, plucked up the courage and wanted a phoenix but wasn’t sure about the design. I thought I’d be safe if I picked a good artist and went with their judgement. The tattooist called a lot of things right – mainly doing it in Japanese style with a dark background. As I’d wanted full technicolour and am glad I didn’t go through with that. And I still want a sleeve on my other arm, as I love tattoo art and Japanese style tattoos, but it’s been planning that one that’s made me realise the shortcomings of the one I have already.

“why do you give a fuck what people are saying they aren’t wearing it?”
But I am. Maybe in the photo you can’t quite see what’s wrong but this is it:

– issue number one is the background, which doesn’t have any shape or flow – it’s been drawn on randomly and looks messy. Especially from the elbow up and around the back of the elbow. I’ve seen many other tattoo sleeves with much better integrated designs.

– There’s far too many big shapes that are just plain colour. At the back of the arm/elbow there are big chunks that have just been coloured in black. It was done free-hand and the tattooist told me to trust him that it would look good when completed. Based on his previous work I had no reason to doubt him. It was a while before the piece started to take shape. It was done over a number of sessions and it was by around session 5 or 6 of 7 that I started to worry about the final outcome. By that time it was too late to make any changes and I thought I’d get it finished rather than leave it as I pursuaded myself it would all look different when complete. But there’s no symmetry, pattern or anything in the background that makes it look like it’s there by design that I’ve seen on many other sleeves – wind lines, elements, etc.

– the clouds in the background around the top phoenix are too busy and the tail feathers don’t stand out as much as they did when it was a stand alone piece – the top phoenix was inked first, then as I was so impressed I went back to have the sleeve done. The shape around the head, with the thin crest feathers, has been lost with the black background shrinking its head, same with the shading on the throat.

– the cherry blossom doesn’t look right in red, they should be pink so they don’t dominate the composition.

– the second big issue is that the bottom phoenix is a perspective drawing so at first glance it looks like it only has one wing, it takes a bit of looking at to work out the correct shape and that the other wing is in the background. This looked good when it was shown to me on paper but not so now it’s been wrapped around an arm. All the more so as to keep an S shape with the two birds in the overall composition it has been positioned inside of the arm so most of the time what you see (from the front) looks like a crushed wing and distorted neck.

– because of this, a mistake has been made by the tattooist with those thin bushy feathers as the tail starts. He’s assumed the body is flat, when in fact it’s actually twisted and he’s gone around too far with those feathers, which makes the body look compressed and fatter.

– the colours on the bottom phoenix just don’t quite work – I did ask for the blue/yellow but it clashes with the brown/orange and pink that was added after.

Reading what you’re all saying, I can see how the linework is very precise and the colouring/shading has been done neatly. But somehow in the execution it looks wrong.

“just because you have seen far more superior work on somebody else you’re going to spend more money to get it removed”
Yes. I wanted a great tattoo. For me a tattoo should be art and expression. Having a mediocre tattoo is not the image I want. I paid nearly £2,000 (and I’m not a high earner, I made a lot of sacrifices) because I thought that would guarantee a superior quality tattoo. I’m not comfortable wearing this tattoo, just as I’d be uncomfortable if I was forced to wear bad clothes all the time. If I have to pay more so I can show my arm again I’ll just have to do it.

I don’t like what I’ve got and whenever I get the truth out of people, it seems to be what I’m thinking. Overall it looks very flat and lifeless, something that was confirmed to me when a friend said about the bottom phoenix “to me it just looks like a dead bird”. In the best Japanese tattoos the animals look alive and full of expression.

Since researching tattoo number 2 it seems I just cannot avoid meeting people with great sleeve tattoos. Now I’ve seen more examples of great work I feel it would look like a mismatch to start on arm number 2 with what I’ve got in place.

Back on topic… Of the clinics I’ve browsed online I’ve found a few around £1,000 for 5/6 sessions for a “large” tattoo. I’ve also read about places in the USA where people have paid prices as low as $50 a session for removal of very large tattoos. Just looking for a ball-park figure as it seems to vary a lot and a lot of places don’t give you a clear price.